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Post by Scumhunter on Mar 15, 2020 1:45:08 GMT -5
Oh yeah I mean I'd vote for herpes over Donald Trump but while Fox News has a conservative bias, CNN and MSNBC have a corporate liberal bias and they did not want to see Bernie win. I think Rachel Maddow is relatively decent though in fairness.
But yeah it used to be you'd say there's issues on both sides and have a point but there is no both sides anymore. There should be no way to defend Trump's distorted reality.
I will say though while the corporate media didn't help, Bernie Sanders did not do as good a job of getting out the youth vote as he did four years ago for whatever reasons. I think that is one thing Democrats still need is they don't have that youthful inspirational guy or girl yet. I like Bernie and not to sound ageist but it's disappointing the hippest guy or girl in the party is a 78-year-old man. With the exception of Jimmy Carter and LBJ (who was basically President by default after Kennedy was assassinated even if he did win the one election he ran in), every Democrat elected since 1960 was a young and attractive well-spoken and inspirational politician (JFK, Clinton, Obama).
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Post by 912thamwuser on Mar 15, 2020 16:07:19 GMT -5
Even then, I'd sooner blame it all on several party bureaucrats and committee executives for the failed youth voter turnout; Hundreds of polling places near colleges were suspiciously and criminally shut down early, young adults ended up in 3 to 7 hour long lines, and many of them had to report back to their work shifts that Tuesday, many with strict and occasionally abusive employers. Sanders knows how to mobilize the youth; The problem is we can't beat the systematic vote suppressors yet.
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Post by Scumhunter on Mar 15, 2020 17:13:06 GMT -5
Even then, I'd sooner blame it all on several party bureaucrats and committee executives for the failed youth voter turnout; Hundreds of polling places near colleges were suspiciously and criminally shut down early, young adults ended up in 3 to 7 hour long lines, and many of them had to report back to their work shifts that Tuesday, many with strict and occasionally abusive employers. Sanders knows how to mobilize the youth; The problem is we can't beat the systematic vote suppressors yet. The thing is- I understand you like Bernie and he's my preferred candidate to but we don't need a repeat of 2016. This is different where Hillary was already anointed queen and Bernie had no shot because of that. Even if the system is still a bit of an obstacle for Bernie, he has not done as good a job this year as he did four years or go. This whole "Bernie or bust" attitude is dangerous, as a corporate preferred liberal in the White House is still better than a dangerous demagogue. The tides are changing and there will eventually be someone more along the lines of Sanders in the White House, but we (seemingly) aren't there yet. |
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Post by 912thamwuser on Mar 15, 2020 20:22:09 GMT -5
Even then, I'd sooner blame it all on several party bureaucrats and committee executives for the failed youth voter turnout; Hundreds of polling places near colleges were suspiciously and criminally shut down early, young adults ended up in 3 to 7 hour long lines, and many of them had to report back to their work shifts that Tuesday, many with strict and occasionally abusive employers. Sanders knows how to mobilize the youth; The problem is we can't beat the systematic vote suppressors yet. The thing is- I understand you like Bernie and he's my preferred candidate to but we don't need a repeat of 2016. This is different where Hillary was already annointed queen and Bernie had no shot because of that. T Even if the system is still a bit of an obstacle for Bernie, he has not done as good a job this year as he did four years or go. This whole "Bernie or bust" attitude is dangerous, as a corporate preferred liberal in the White House is still better than a dangerous demagogue. The tides are changing and there will eventually be someone more along the lines of Sanders in the White House, but we (seemingly) aren't there yet. Normally I'd feel evenly matched in the "Sanders or screw it" vs "Blue no matter who" debate. But many of the videos I've seen online are exposing Biden as suffering from some kind of neurological decay like dementia, at about the same pace as Tronald Dump. If Biden was to hypothetically win the election, then be declared too infirm to serve in the Oval Office partway through a term, then his vice president would take over, which means whoever he appoints running mate would matter more than Biden himself. Even then, that's a discussion for the general election rather than the primary, and what I said about those hours long lines and shutdowns at college town voting places applies specifically to the ongoing primary. |
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Post by Scumhunter on Mar 15, 2020 20:27:10 GMT -5
I understand but Biden's always been goofy. He told a guy in a wheelchair to "stand up" once even ten years ago
There is too much at stake right now to not support whoever the nominee is. The Supreme Court in particular- which will affect women's abortion rights among other issues.
Biden's VP will be important make no mistake but what's most important is getting Trump out.
All I'm saying is while there are still unfair obstacles Bernie has to go through in the primaries- a lot of it is on him this time as opposed to four years ago. His campaign had an opportunity and didn't seize on it or hasn't seized on it yet- there's still time for him to make a comeback but it's looking increasingly unlikely.
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Post by 912thamwuser on Mar 15, 2020 22:39:31 GMT -5
I understand but Biden's always been goofy. He told a guy in a wheelchair to "stand up" once even ten years ago There is too much at stake right now to not support whoever the nominee is. The Supreme Court in particular- which will affect women's abortion rights among other issues. Biden's VP will be important make no mistake but what's most important is getting Trump out. All I'm saying is while there are still unfair obstacles Bernie has to go through in the primaries- a lot of it is on him this time as opposed to four years ago. His campaign had an opportunity and didn't seize on it or hasn't seized on it yet- there's still time for him to make a comeback but it's looking increasingly unlikely. Well, you do have a good point about the judicial branch. We only have 4 non-theocrats left, 2 of them on their way out. If Tronald and Pence appoint two more theocrats, the entire judicial branch will end up as borderline Army Of God turf for the rest of the century! |
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Post by HeadMarshal on Mar 18, 2020 13:32:36 GMT -5
I would also appreciate a Bernie Sanders type of candidate to become president of the US someday.
However, the two most important things right now in the Democratic nominee is the ability to handle a crisis and who can take on Donald Trump. Joe Biden although not flawless, is the best person to accomplish both of these things. Voters in Illinois, Arizona and the super-important state of Florida seem to agree on that.
Also, if Sanders drops out of the primary, then Democratic voters won't have to vote until November 4th, lessening their exposure to Covid-19. There's really no point for Sanders to stay in the race as his path to the needed delegates is very unlikely at this point.
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Post by тσρтєиhυитєя on Mar 18, 2020 23:44:59 GMT -5
I know this may sound very extreme, but lately I’ve been on some “Maximilien Robespierre is my hero” type of attitude since Super Tuesday, honestly I’m not going to get into how messed up the republicans are because they’ve proved it themselves, the DNC is extremely shallow for what they did this time, intentionally got Mayor Pete, Amy Klobuchar to drop out and endorse Biden stacking the deck against Bernie for Super Tuesday and MSNBC hosts clap like a bunch of seals over Biden, heck Fox News has given Bernie some good coverage from time to time.
But anyways I find the elites, the establishment, the DNC, to be completely vile, and yet everyone wonders why I get inspired by a guy like Maximilien Robespierre, because even with the democratic process they’re making a mockery out of it by having money in politics, I just hate this system the system is broken and it’s gonna take the people to fix it, Biden, Trump, Hillary, Pence aren’t worth a f***.
Sorry everyone just been so done with politics since Super Tuesday.
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Post by Scumhunter on Mar 19, 2020 0:06:39 GMT -5
I'm sorry toptenhunter but Bernie had his chances and sorry if this sounds harsh but this attitude is exactly what Trump and the Russian trolls want you to have.
The fact of the matter is Trump is way more evil than any "establishment" politician and this election is too important to neglect just because you didn't get the candidate you wanted. We need you and everyone who voted for Bernie even if it is painful to do so.
The thing that made Trump's election so awful four years ago, besides him not even winning legitimately was what he represented. If John McCain had defeated Obama in 2008, I would have been heartbroken and crushed but still given him a chance. If Romney had won, I would have been disappointed, but my disagreements would have been on policy. Even if in theory Ted Cruz got elected in 2016, it would have been policy reasons for being disappointed. It was not that a preferred candidate didn't win, a lot of us held our nose and voted for Hillary. It was not us wanting a participation trophy, but horrified at what Trump represented that we unfortunately found we were right about it.
I'm not trying to not take your opinions seriously because you're young, I understand your frustration, but if we hopefully have a country for the next few decades, there will be some elections where the candidate you want wins and ones where they lose. I have voted in nearly 20 years worth of elections. Sometimes the candidate I want wins and sometimes they lose. I don't swear off politics when I don't get my way.
Trump was an exception because of what he represented.
I understand you're upset but this Bernie or bust attitude plays into his hands. We can use Bernie's movement to try to get Biden to at least listen to us. We already know we can't do that with Trump.
The nation is slowly becoming more in the lines of Bernie's views, and even Biden has adopted some of his platforms. Bernie forced the party into some of his platforms, even if he didn't get the nomination.
There is too much at stake here. We don't need a repeat of 2016.
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Post by тσρтєиhυитєя on Mar 19, 2020 15:51:11 GMT -5
I realize the daily chit-chat thread is supposed to be to discuss any part of daily conversation but I feel it's become a bit too serious and too much political discussion lately (which by the way is totally my fault lol), so I figured I'd instead start a thread for posters here to wherever they want to discuss something about politics- be it the current primaries going across the country, the current Supreme Court nominee hearings etc... can discuss it here instead. I don't like to get too worked up over politics so I may not post too often here, but wanted an outlet for any time a poster wanted to vent. Also, it seems for the most part it seems the most frequent posters here are more on the liberal side, but if someone joins or has joined and has different political views than others, I ask that we please find ways to disagree with arguments while not getting personal and still respecting our different views. (It's fine to disagree with the subtext, but don't get personal). This way we can make to more somewhat lighthearted and/or more "normal" conversation in daily chit-chat. I’ve given it a lot of thought, and well I’ll support Bernie till he drops out and then I’ll get behind Biden, the truth is Tiny Hands 4 years have been the most grotesque in the history of this country and as much as I would love to have a Bernie Sanders type of president, the truth is he’s fallen behind and it breaks my heart. But I’d rally behind Joe Biden if he’s the nominee. |
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Post by Scumhunter on Mar 19, 2020 16:04:17 GMT -5
Thanks. And don't get me wrong, I completely understand where you're coming from. I wanted Bernie to be the next President also. I am also very disappointed he won't be the nominee. I don't think Biden's a bad guy- but rather just part of the establishment. If this makes you feel somewhat better- here are are articles from a few years ago during the 2016 DNC primaries with Biden praising Sanders- in some ways passive-aggressively it seems he's endorsing Sanders over Clinton for the nomination in these articles. It shows hope that even though Biden may have a different pragmatism and may be more old-school in his thinking- he "gets" why Bernie is so popular and what he stands for. It doesn't mean he's going to suddenly adopt Bernie's policies, but he at least understands them, and understands Bernie's appeal, which is a start at least: www.cnn.com/2016/01/11/politics/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-income-inequality/index.htmlwww.cnn.com/2016/04/22/politics/joe-biden-bernie-sanders/index.html |
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Post by 912thamwuser on Mar 19, 2020 20:24:13 GMT -5
A lot of people say that, if Tronald Dump wins reelection, there won't be an America by a certain year, usually '024, but in this case '040 or '050. What would it look like if America ceased to be a country? Does that mean it would break up into 9 smaller nations or something?
Even I will admit a Blue Dog Democrat is better than whatever the Republican Party disintegrated into under Tronald Dump, but now I'm worried about whether people will actually get out the vote for Biden. I seem to recall how, in '016, people in the Rust Belt didn't turn out to vote for fellow Blue Dog candidate Rodham, and progressives were warning us that, if the party Committee (and their vote suppressors!) run another Blue Dog, it was almost assured a repeat of the '016 election. Progressives learned that lesson, but still couldn't beat the vote suppressors (e.x. progressive leaning districts got hundreds of polling places selectively shut down early, college kids waited hours in line) and big advertiser backed cable news corporations.
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Post by Scumhunter on Mar 19, 2020 21:09:33 GMT -5
There was also the 1988 election where the very liberal Michael Dukakis- who was more along the line of Bernie Sanders- got trounced by George Bush (the first Bush). So it works both ways. Sorry but it's time to move on from Bernie in my opinion, and I feel Bernie should drop out to unite the party as well seeing as he now has no realistic path to winning. The key is to unite and stop with the negativity.
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Post by тσρтєиhυитєя on Mar 20, 2020 17:55:27 GMT -5
I would love it if Biden makes Bernie his VP that would just make the election more better for all who hate Dump.
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Post by Scumhunter on Mar 20, 2020 18:02:17 GMT -5
The problem is even Bernie acknowledged that the nation probably does not want to see two old guys on the ticket (love his sense of humor lol). Ideally you want the VP to be someone who can take over from day one if anything happens to the President and you'd have two guys getting up there in age which would concern eeveryone. Ideally you'd want Biden's VP to on the surface appear to be younger and healthier so they can last.
Additionally, Biden has already committed to making a woman his VP candidate. Perhaps he can choose Elizabeth Warren who is somewhat more along the lines of Bernie's thinking to make somewhat of an appeal but we'll worry about that later.
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